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Re: Jobkeeper - sole trader, new business, no BAS required. How to satisfy ATO information requir...

Initiate

Replies 8

Hi everyone

 

They've released a process which accommodates the scenario described in this thread.  It's for new businesses to apply to be granted further time to inform the ATO of business sales in this financial year up to 12 March 2020.  It's to be completed and a decision made by the ATO before we can submit the JobKeeper application.

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/General/JobKeeper-Payment/Sole-traders-and-other-entities/

 

"If the business entity and the eligible business participant met all JobKeeper eligibility requirements, other than the requirements to hold an ABN and/or provide notice to the Commissioner of income or taxable sales by 12 March 2020, you should consider applying to the Commissioner to exercise his discretion to grant further time. See JobKeeper application for Commissioner’s discretion in respect of an eligible business participant.

You cannot enrol to receive a JobKeeper payment until you are notified that the Commissioner has granted the further time requested."

 

The legislation behind it has a date of issue of 1 May 2020 but I didn't see it when checking regularly for updates.  The ATO page was last updated 7 May 2020 and this new information wasn't there before that so it looks like it has just been released for use.  I suspect the ATO advisers people spoke to recently (after 1 May 2020) knew about the legislation and hence why the ATO advisers' answers have changed since I spoke to them and was told I was ineligible.

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/document?DocID=PSR/PS20201/NAT/ATO/00001&PiT=99991231235958

All the best with this latest hurdle.  I hope it is the last one before getting to apply for JobKeeper.  My "legs" are getting tired.

Enthusiast

Replies 6

@BamfElf 

 

Thanks but isn't this just for seeking an extension of time to lodge a 2018-19 tax return or a BAS related to 2019-20 (or to get an ABN)?  If so, it doesn't help most of the people participating in this post, which is primarily focused on new businesses not registered for GST i.e. they don't have either to report - so an extension of time to do so would not help.  However, it would assist those who can report either and have merely missed the 12 March 2020 deadline (or obtained/obtaining an ABN after 12 March 2020).

 

Anyway, that's what is appears to me.   Am I missing something?

Enthusiast

Replies 0

provide notice of assessable income or taxable supplies during the relevant period to the Commissioner, where notice was not provided by 12 March 2020.

 

Is it enough to have been paid via invoices against an abn ? Is that what provide notice means?

Superuser

Replies 2

Hey @NeilC,

I spoke the a Director of Small Business at the ATO about this and he said that it was meant to include info about the alternative test but is more targeted towards those who you mentioned.
He said to me to fill it out regardless and when I email it through, explain my situation and provide evidence such as invoices I've sent / invoices sent to me from suppliers / ABN letter registration. Basically a collection of documents that support the fact our biz is legit and we have been operating this financial year.
I used the word doc format because I could type more into it.
Hope this helps. If course this is my situation and yours may be different, but that's the advice I was given.

Enthusiast

Replies 1

@mac_bridie 

 

I'm confused.... and concerned.

 

I was advised by the ATO officer I talked to on Thursday that my wife was eligible for Jobkeeper and to lodge the application and the monthly business declaration (Steps 1 and 2).  No mention of the need to complete the application for an extension of time.

 

This was based on answers to his questions (or me already explaining) about being a new business, having ABN (Aug 2019), why not having 2018-19 tax return showing assessble income from the business, why not lodged BAS, whether income had dropped by at least 30% and why etc.

 

I also specifically raised the question about answering "yes" to having met the above requirements (related to 12 March 2020 deadline) as part of the declaration in application/enrolment process (given my wife clearly hadn't).  He confirmed it was okay to do so, the ATO has the discretion to approve Jobkeeper in these circumstances (new business, not registered for GST), there would be a record of the call/conversation on file and on request, he provided me with a reference number related to the call.

 

This is consistent with experiences shared by several other sole traders on this website.  However, others like yourself have received different advice.  Why isn't there a consistent approach being taken by the ATO on these issues?

 

Anyway, it may pay to dot the i's and cross the t's by completing the form as well, noting however, that I've already enrolled my wife (as instructed by ATO officer) and the form states:

"You cannot enrol to receive a JobKeeper payment unless and until you are notified that the Commissioner has granted the
further time requested". 

 

Very frustrating and confusing.  Maybe I'll call the ATO and check the reference number provided and confirm or otherwise that it was ok to enrol and/or whether I should complete the new form (for my wife).

Initiate

Replies 0

I'm in the same situation as you. I am not a new business but I missed the deadline of 12 March, but my actual deadline was later than 12 March because I filed with an registered accountant.

 

I called the ATO again once I heard the new form was released, they told me not to worry and I don't have to fill out the new form.

 

I am very confused but I will follow their advice for now and I will not fill out the new form. If anyone gets different advice, please let me know. Because ATO is very inconsistent with their advice at the moment.

Initiate

Replies 1


@NeilC wrote:

@BamfElf 

 

Thanks but isn't this just for seeking an extension of time to lodge a 2018-19 tax return or a BAS related to 2019-20 (or to get an ABN)?  If so, it doesn't help most of the people participating in this post, which is primarily focused on new businesses not registered for GST i.e. they don't have either to report - so an extension of time to do so would not help.  However, it would assist those who can report either and have merely missed the 12 March 2020 deadline (or obtained/obtaining an ABN after 12 March 2020).

 

Anyway, that's what is appears to me.   Am I missing something?


The phrase extension of time might be misleading.  It's a catch all phrase to describe the process for a few different situations, including ours.

The criteria we are questioning is, according to the legislation page (link I provided), to prevent people from exploiting the JobKeeper payment by creating a business after learning about JobKeeper.  In other words, they want only businesses who were active prior to 12 March 2020 to be eligible.


The form on the page I provided is a means of giving people in our situation a way to show we had assessable business income prior to 12 March 2020.  It's an alternative to providing the same information via a 2018-19 tax return or BAS submitted before 12 March 2020.

I don't know why, after the form was released, the ATO is telling businesses in the same situation to not complete the form and to go ahead with the JobKeeper application and "technically" answer the eligibility question incorrectly.  mac_bridie mentioned the Director of Small Business said "it was meant to include info about the alternative test but is more targeted towards those who you mentioned".  It's odd the director would say that as the form is not related to the alternative test at all.  I see this all as due to the application process being not robust and constantly changing.  Either way, I'm glad those who haven't had to complete the form and been given permission to apply over the phone got to submit their application.  I'm going to complete the form first to dot all the i's and cross all the t's as you mentioned.

Superuser

Replies 0

@BamfElf
The director mentioned that the form was intended to be used for all who require discretion, which includes those who are using the alternative test. It should mention that, but it doesn't. That's what I meant.

Enthusiast

Replies 0

That last link that you included, https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/document?DocID=PSR/PS20201/NAT/ATO/00001&PiT=99991231235958  Having had a read of it, example number six ,Example - eligibility of a business with no supplies in a tax period that ends before 12 March 2020,  Does that then imply that Having only started in Feb this year, I wont be standing a chance? Sole Trader, Abn not gst registered.

Enthusiast

Replies 4

@ChrisATO 

Any progress on this eligibility issue i.e. no BAS requirement (or not before March 12 2020) and didn't have income in 2018-19 tax return?

 

There appears to be mixed outcomes from posters calling the ATO.  One was told currently ineligible because they didn't meet either of the above requirements - whereas 2 others were told they were eligible as they met the alternative (turnover) test INSTEAD of the above.

 

Obviously there could be subtle differences between the cases above, resulting in different outcomes.  However, at face value all 3 appear to fail the BAS/2018-19 tax return requirement - with only 2 told alternative (turnover) test would suffice.

 

There a several posters in this conversation that all all seeking answers on this issue - yet responses from the ATO appear to avoid specifically addressing the issue. Can the ATO provide a definitive answer on this?