Announcements
On 7 August 2020 the government proposed further changes to the JobKeeper extension. For more information, visit the Treasury website.

ATO Community

How do we define and show scams? Real examples included

This post is archived and may not be up-to-date.

Highlighted

Enthusiast

Views 847

Replies 3

How do we define or prove we've been scammed?

  1. It could be some coins sent to a scam ICO address.. but how can you show that its a scam when it could have been a friend or other intentional transaction?
  2. What about an ICO promising coins in May but still not delivering in October and not communicating with me but still trying to raise more money with new investors? Invested through a pre-sale pool. 
  3. What if we contribute through a pre-sale pool to an ICO which ackowledges it ran out of money? How do you even show that your sent coins were intended for that project? 

 

3 REPLIES 3
Highlighted

Devotee

Replies 2

hey so pre-sales normally have several phases before coins get released (double check the release date). some icos release immediately, others do so after the bonus phases, you should document the site and screenshot the instructions including the addy they provided to you. the smart-contract addy usually, should have the same address for donations to the ico throughout.

 

I have no transactional history with CoinsMarkets, and the site won't load anymore, but all over google news is report after report about the scam or theories of what has happened (same with C-Cex who stole my XVG all through it being worth 6k down to basically 60 bucks now, with some dodgy refund token) . The ATO would just google 'CoinsMarkets' and see that i'm legitiate in not being able to include my trading data from there.

In my case it isn't relevant because I only had a few things on there, which aren't worth anythign more than 20 or 30 dollars. Although maybe at some point they were worth more... but in the end everything you sell to AUD will back-track, and it will be obvious if you were lying. 

 

The Scams in cryptospace are often far more subtle and hard to prove, it essentially ammounts to bullying and intimidation, to instill panic and cause a user to do an action that is dis-benefitial, usually seemily through naivety or pure negligence, but really they run things poorly at times to cause a panic... Trade Satoshi and Yobit are well known for this. C-Cex is the king at it though... they block withdrawals and go on holidays for months at a time.

Highlighted

Devotee

Replies 1

Also for ICOs the tokens are almost always returned automatically to the ETH addy you donated from... the contract address as mentioned above for an ICO should be public knowledge. You should be able to prove with screenshots from the projects website... the address for ICO donations and news about the scam if it is one. There will be a lot of evidence available from the self-regulated space that crypto is. Facebook pages full of complaints (aren't uncommon when there is a scam) and the ANN thread you can get to via Coin Market Cap, will have as many complaints... 

You can provide your ETH addy as evidence, and screenshots of what the ICO promised and failed to deliver, sometimes it is difficult to find out when they will release the tokens but this is very rare and usually can be found somewhere on their website. I don't know of many projects that have pulled their website down .etc

At the moment for me I have Unify coins on the Unify exchange and the PHP is broken and the wallet won't load and nobody from the team is contactable, and the discord has gone quiet... so my coins are trapped, but I don't think I can claim it is a scam because my coins are still there on the exchange page just their wallet page is broken so I have no functionality. I could probably call it a scam and write it off when I am sure, but then if they fix things or it is just a case of negligence not mal-intent... and my coins become available, i'll have to declare them as a full profit, having written them off as a full loss. ATM i'm just praying it comes good.

Highlighted

Devotee

Replies 0

You reduce your capital proceeds from a CGT event if:

  • you are not likely to receive some or all of the proceeds
  • the non-receipt of some or all of the proceeds is not due to anything you have done or failed to do, and
  • you took all reasonable steps to get payment.

    https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/tax-return/2018/in-detail/publications/guide-to-capital-gains-tax...

    Here you go ^^ 

    You'd just need to show evidence that you tried to get payment, so conversations from telegram or discord of you trying to contact the project/ICO team... or exchange ticket logs, or evidence the website is down. or the exchange has closed and won't allow you access. Or letters from hitbtc for example, suspending your account for no reason.

    And of course you are not to blame.

    This is interesting because!!! Some coins fork and if you aren't in the loop or didn't hear the news or didn't keep upto date there are maaaanny examples where you are left with obsolete tokens or coins (I think EOS was like this wasn't it with the chain swap from ethereum to their own?)...  Like if you are left with dead coins... for not keeping active with news... you weren't scammed but you lost everything? The asset called 'eos' is still worth something on the market yours are just dead now and it is because you didn't do something (participate in the swap program in time)...

    Tough one hey. I've been wondering about this quite a bit though. ODN forked to ODIN recently and if you didn't register you don't get 2 ODIN per 1 ODN... and ODN is now worth 78 sat instead of 400... due to the project team moving from ODN to ODIN project. That isn't a scam but still a bit rough if you're not active, or a hobby trader and aren't watching your investments closely. It is essentially a purge or burn of non active users is how it comes across sometimes.