ATO Community

Re: Transfer Balance Account Reporting

Ask a question

Initiate

Views 4628

Replies 30

Wife and I are trustees of our SMSF and I have read the instructions on the TBAR.

Between the two of us we have nine account based pension accounts that were all current  prior to 1July 2017.

I think the instructions are telling me that I have to lodge nine individual reports i.e. 9 x 6 page reports.

Is this correct? If so,why can't a multiple account report be provided to bring account details to notice at 1July?

I can understand the need to report individual changes, going forward, but surely there is a more efficient way of reporting the initial balances.

 

 

1 ACCEPTED SOLUTION

Accepted Solutions

Best answer

ATO Certified

Community Support

Replies 28

Hi @Lesleeg,

 

Thanks for your patience whilst we sort information from a specialist area.

 

There will be three channels that you can use to report transfer balance cap information:

 

  1. Submitting a data file via the Business Portal or Tax Agent Portal (available from 1 October 2017)
  2.  posting or faxing a paper report (available from 1 October 2017)
  3. electronic lodgment via ATO Online services (available from 1 January 2018).

If you lodge via channel 1 you can report multiple accounts/events in one report.

 

If you use channel 2 or channel 3 you are currently required to lodge individual reports for each member account/event. We are currently working to update these channels to allow you to report multiple accounts/events for a member on a single form.

 

If you have any further questions regarding your SMSF, you can phone us on 13 10 20 between 8am - 6pm, Monday to Friday to speak with an operator.

 

Thanks.

30 REPLIES 30
Highlighted

Community Support

Replies 0

Hi @Lesleeg,

 

Thanks for joining our Community!

 

We've working with a specialist area to answer your question and we're planning on getting back to you as soon as possible.

 

Thanks.

Best answer

ATO Certified

Community Support

Replies 28

Hi @Lesleeg,

 

Thanks for your patience whilst we sort information from a specialist area.

 

There will be three channels that you can use to report transfer balance cap information:

 

  1. Submitting a data file via the Business Portal or Tax Agent Portal (available from 1 October 2017)
  2.  posting or faxing a paper report (available from 1 October 2017)
  3. electronic lodgment via ATO Online services (available from 1 January 2018).

If you lodge via channel 1 you can report multiple accounts/events in one report.

 

If you use channel 2 or channel 3 you are currently required to lodge individual reports for each member account/event. We are currently working to update these channels to allow you to report multiple accounts/events for a member on a single form.

 

If you have any further questions regarding your SMSF, you can phone us on 13 10 20 between 8am - 6pm, Monday to Friday to speak with an operator.

 

Thanks.

Devotee Registered Tax Practitioner

Replies 22

Submitting a data file via the Business Portal or Tax Agent Portal (available from 1 October 2017)

Yes, but then you need software to produce the data file?  

 

you can phone us on 13 10 20

 

Yes, I have spent at least an hour over 3 separate phone calls to 13 10 20 and the tax agent number on this and other TBAR questions,

and in that whole time was not able to get them to understand the nature of the questions.  I had the call back from the expert, but even the expert did not understand fundamental questions.  Now I am waiting for another call back from a higher expert.

 

Even though the due date is 30 June  2018 for SMSF TBAR forms, we want to be able to lodge as we are doing the fund tax returns because:

1.  We will not have the information till then, and

2.  We will not want to be going back to do them afterwards.

 

The form is 6 pages of mostly white space  -  it could have been done in 3 pages.

 

If the 6 page form is really for trustees, the make a shorter form available for tax agents.  Even better, make a standard spreadsheet like lodgement deferrals.

 

Items 11 to 16  -  bring 17 date and 18 value up the same line  -  then we could have multiple events for one member on the same form.

 

Item 15 -  why is it even there?  It does not seem to match any of the defined TBAR events.

 

The instructions QC 53363 say "Only use this table if you are reporting information for your member's total super balance"  but not where these amounts are coming from or what circumatance require item 15 to be reported. 

 

If the instructions cannot specify, then there should at least be a reference to another authority document.

 

Further along, the effective date for an item 15 event will always be 30 June of the relevant year. 

 

Does this mean that this is an event that has to be reported every year? 

If so, will the due date be 10 October for a 30 June event?

If so, does this mean that we have to have all fund accounts competed before 10 October each year?

 

If the instructions had more information, maybe I would not have to ask questions like this.

 

When I ring the hotline, it really is a last resort after doing a lot of searching.

It is not helpful to be told by staff:

"We are still only learning"  

"We cannot tell you what to put on the form"   -   but it is your form!

"I don't do google searches" (to find ATO information)  -  but the rest of us do because it is a wider search than the internal ATO search.

 

I would really like someone who knows the answers to all this stuff to ring and explain it, and the put out a guide.

 

I do not have a problem with doing forms  -  we do forms all day every day.

I just want to make sure that I have right information to do the forms the right way at the right time.

 

ATO, please contact me directly as TA 55855 004

 

 

 

 

 

 

Devotee Registered Tax Practitioner

Replies 21

I spent another half hour on the phone this morning, and had nearly all my questions answered.

 

It looks like:

 

1.  Item 15 is only used where a member's total super balance is over $ 1.6 M.

2.  Item 13 can be the aggregate of all the member's income stream interests, so 6 pension accounts still only require one TBAR form.

 

I was also given a contact point for further questions:

 

ATO Superannuation Business Line

Penrith

Fax 1**TFN removed**

 

 

 

Devotee Registered Tax Practitioner

Replies 0

Fax Number for Penrith looked like a TFN, so blanked out. You can finf on this link

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/Forms/How-to-apply-for-SMSF-specific-advice/?page=18

 

 

 

Initiate

Replies 19

Bruce4Tax,

I appreciate the update.

I have no doubt that answers are being developed over time as a fortnight ago the two "ATO "experts" I spoke to were both (pleasant, but) insistent that an individual report was necessary for each account. I have, therefore, ridiculous as it is, posted 54 (9x6) pages with only the amount and account number different in each package. ( I also included a one pager produced from my admin software saying exactly the same thing!) Perhaps procrastination is not the thief of time!

Perhaps I misunderstand your comment about Q15 but I thought that the TBAR was to report pension amounts to ensure superannuants stayed below $1.6m in pension phase. Your comment seems to indicate that all funds with over $1.6m, even if all in accumulation, need to report? Am I right in understanding your comment? Regards

Devotee Registered Tax Practitioner

Replies 1

Yes, I said exactly the same thing to the ATO this morning. The reason is the instructions shown at top of the form include a requirement for any member that has to report total super balance information. As to multiple forms, I only have verbal advice but I have put the question in writing to ATO.

Initiate

Replies 0

I don't want to continue this discussion, unnecessarily, but if there is a legislative or regulatory requirement to report accumulation phase events then surely it is totally inappropriate to have this requirement included in a Transfer Balance Account Report. I would strongly assert that a separate Total Super Balance Report must be created.  My logic being that an increase in accumulation funds through contributions (as distinct from commutation ) does not relate in any way to the transfer balance cap and it is simply wrong (and confusing) to include this reporting demand in the TBAR.   

Devotee Registered Tax Practitioner

Replies 16

I spent an hour on the phone yesterday with someone from the TBAR development team, and can now confirm: 1. Yes, each member account needs to be reported separately. If a member has 5 retirement income stream accounts at 01 July 2017, then the 5 amounts need to be reported. 2. There is a new TBAR form that should be released soon - this will allow for up to 4 reports for a single member on one form. 3. The new form gives a much better explanation of what is required. 4. Total super balance amounts are only required if the member would be disadvantaged by not reporting - e.g. fund accounts show member balance = $ 1,645,000, incl property at fair value $ 1,250,000 M result = no NCC allowed next year? if property was sold, disposal costs would be say, $ 55,000 but, fund can lodge TBAR for showing total super = $ 1,590,000 - see QC 51977 result = member is allowed $ 100,000 NCC next year (assuming total super balance was the only block to NCC)
Top Solution Authors