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Transfer Balance Account Reporting

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Enthusiast

Replies 15

seems like you did a look of digging to come up with this information.

 

I have found that in ATO Super Communique Monthly Newsletter for October 2017 they basically confirm what you have stated about Total Super Balance:

 

Modified reporting obligation 

The ATO notes that the APV is net of exit and administration fees payable on accessing the superannuation interest, and therefore needs to be taken into account in the valuation. However, some funds will not be in a position to report the correct APV for 30 June 2017 because they cannot exclude exit and administration fees from the reported value. This is due to varying interpretations of APV within the industry based on historical member account balance reporting. These fees are generally not material amounts. If the 30 June balance reported in the member contribution statement (MCS) is not the APV, the ATO says that funds should report the APV separately in a transfer balance account report (TBAR) around the same time as MCS lodgment. 

 

But the ATO have subsequently removed that news letter, and I can not seem to find a copy of it anywhere, would you happen to have a copy??  Or have you been able to find this or anything like this somewhere else on ATO website?

 

I also found something called TBAR ers guidance notes by the ATO sofware developers, which reads to me that for future years you only need to report Accumulation Phase Value if required.  softwaredevelopers.ato.gov.au TBAR_ERS_Guidance_Notes

 

Do you have any views on this??

 

Also, how did you get in touch with the ATO TBAR development team ??

 

 

Devotee Registered Tax Practitioner

Replies 14

1. Digging is what I do. 2. APV = Accumulation Phase Value - for anyone else reading this. 3. Reporting Total Super Balance is not compulsory - or even neccessary most of the time. You would only do it in the rare instance that netting off disposal costs would give you a lower balance so that the member can, say, make a contribution that they were otherwise not eligible for. 4. MCS is not for SMSF, only large funds, so that is not in my area. Instead of MCS, a SMSF reports that information on the member statements that are lodged with the SMSF tax return. 5. I don't see that Oct 2017 newsletter either, but I guess ATO super section may be able to provide a copy if you ask. 6. I have lodged a fair few TBAR forms already, but none would have benefited from reporting TSB so it was not needed. For example, if the TSB is way over the $1.6 M, or way under, then shaving cost of disposal off it will not do anything. Also, the accounts and member balances include assets at accounting standard values. It is like how ATO and DSS have different definitions of income. 7. A development team member offered me assistance after my initial post, and this enabled me to talk about this stuff at the discussion groups that I belong to.

Enthusiast

Replies 13

Thanks for info so far @Bruce4Tax

 

I found that Super Newsletter at long last, no one that I spoke to at the ATO knew anything about it and then I found out why, its for APRA regulated funds.

https://www.ato.gov.au/misc/downloads/pdf/qc54403.pdf

 

In the TBAR_ERS_Guidance_Notes which I think are also for APRA funds principles  seem to be same as it does state " for future years - if required provide APV at time of lodging MCS.

 

So Im guessing the TSB that the ATO systems pick up would be from the members statement in the funds return?

 

Everything I have read on the ATO website suggests that TSB needs to be completed, is there anywhere that you know of that states its not compulsory or voluntary?? 

 

Everyone I have spoken to at ATO keeps telling me different things as far as TBC and TSB, had to work out TBC myself and now a bit confused by TSB due to varying information I have received.

 

 

Are you in Victoria by any chance ?

Devotee Registered Tax Practitioner

Replies 12

This recent artcle shows why TSB is important.

 

https://www.smsfadviser.com/strategy/16376-total-superannuation-balance-milestones?utm_source=SMSFAd...

 

For most SMSF members, TSB = total of their accumulation and pension balances from all funds. As mentioned previously, some members may claim a lesser amount. The full calculation is explained by LCR 2016/12 here   https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/document?DocID=COG/LCG201612/NAT/ATO/00001

 

So, the TSB can only be determined from a single SMSF's reports if the member does not belong to any other funds. The SMSF reports its own data, and the other funds report their data. The ATO puts it all together.

 

I still have a few funds with legacy complying pensions and their TBAR amounts are calculated from the pensions paid, not the member balances. The pensions paid are determined by the actuary report.

 

You will probably find the answer to your qyuestion in LCR 2016/12.  By the way, if concession contribution is $ 20,000, your TBAR report would be for $17,000 because the CC needsto be taxed first.

 

Are you in Victoria by any chance ?   Yes  -  Dandenong.

 

 

 

 

Enthusiast

Replies 11

Hi @Bruce4Tax

 

Yes I knew it was important to get TSB right and thats way Im trying to get a better understanding of it. 

 

The ATO realised late last year that LCR 2016/9 was lacking in regards to the special tranistional rules under Section 294.80 of the IT(TP) Act 1997 for structured settlements received prior 01 July 2017 so in Dec 2017 they updated LCR 2016/9 to include para 46A and example 3A. 

 

However, they forgot to update LCR 2016/12  in particular its example calculation of pre 01 July 2017 structured settlement contributions and therefor it is not helpfull.

 

In short for the TSB calcs for 01 July 2017 the amount used for structured settlements is as per the transitional provisions under Section 294.80 of the IT(TP) Act 1997, which by default over rides the normal structured settlement rules under Section 294.80 of the ITAA 1997, It took me a while to work this out and I had to refer to the EM in the process.

 

Still trying to find if it states anywhere that the TSB is not compulsory to report in TBAR, do you have any ideas where I can find this?

 

I used the services of an accountant in Thomas St a while back.

 

 

Devotee Registered Tax Practitioner

Replies 10

Still trying to find if it states anywhere that the TSB is not compulsory to report in TBAR, do you have any ideas where I can find this?

 

From ATO - but my bolding

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who should lodge a transfer balance account report

If you are a super provider or life insurance company, complete this report when:

  • a transfer balance account event has occurred
  • further information is required to calculate a member's total super balance
  • further information is required to determine a member’s concessional contributions amount
  • incorrect information has previously been reported to us.

 

Events you must report

If you are a super provider, including a self-managed super fund (SMSF), you are required to report the following events:

  • super income streams in existence just before 1 July 2017
  • any of the following events that occur on or after 1 July 2017        
    • super income streams that have commenced in retirement phase
    • limited recourse borrowing arrangement payments
    • member commutations
    • compliance with a commutation authority issued by the Commissioner
    • personal injury (structured settlement) contributions
    • super income streams that stop being in the retirement phase, for example because the trustee failed to meet the minimum pension payment standards for an income stream.

Where more information is required to calculate a member’s total super balance or concessional contributions amount to meet legislative requirements, you are required to report:

  • 30 June accumulation phase value
  • 30 June retirement phase value (from 30 June 2018)
  • uncapped notional taxed contributions amount.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------  

  • Last modified: 01 Feb 2018QC 53363

complete this report when:   = compulory

Where more information is required  =  conditional  -  only if you need it.

 

 

 

 

Enthusiast

Replies 3

Thanks @Bruce4Tax,

I may need a new agent for SMSF soon, where abouts in Dandenong are you ?

Devotee Registered Tax Practitioner

Replies 2

I don't think that we are supposed to identify ourselves here, but if you do a google search on my name you will find me.

Enthusiast

Replies 1

Hi @Bruce4Tax

 

have got some updates on all this from the ATO..re - TSB

 

ATO shall be updating its website soon to clear up confusion and provide additional information.

 

The APV is to be reported where the account balance supplied on a member contribution statement does not represent the value of the accumulation interest if the member was to voluntarily cause the interest to cease at 30 June.

 

For self-managed super fund members, they are required to provide an APV for 30 June 2017 if they are in both accumulation and retirement phase on that day. This is required as the ‘Closing account balance’ provided on the SMSF annual return does not indicate the account phases. If the member is only in accumulation phase, provision of the APV is optional as the member has access to their total super balance and can determine if that APV would result in their TSB reducing enough to bring them under a threshold test $1.6m.

 

SMSF annual return 2017-18 and onwards shall have provision to enable APV reporting, eliminating need to report on TBAR.

 

Refer also  CRT-Alert-076/2017

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Devotee Registered Tax Practitioner

Replies 0

Thank you.

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