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Re: Entering Business Profit and Loss into My E-Tax

Devotee

Views 496

Replies 6

Hi team.

I'm almost at the point where i'm finalizing and submitting. I just want to make sure i've input information in correct fields.

Under: Business/sole trader, partnership and trust income (including loss details) > Business income or losses > Net non-primary production

I have input Opening Stock 0, as I have commenced business that year and had no prior purchases of Cryptocurrency and back-dated my ABN to capture all purchases of Cryptocurrency (which were all for trading and the purposes of running a profit making business).
All Cryptocurrency purchased is NET into the next field as expenses, and Closing Stock.. has all of my Cryptocurrency on hand NET EOFY. I have used replacement cost to value this... because at the time I thought it was easier to multiply my holdings by the AUD equivalent price (in future I will likely use Market).

Under this heading am I right to enter my Trade Stock sold to income revenue, AUD > My Bank:
Other business income – manually calculated

And lastly, the most confusing part for me... Where under this section would I enter my NET CFD trading profit and loss?

Am I right to think that if my Business income is less than 20000, I would need to add CFD Profit, to that year's taxable income, but the trades that are Losses are NET and roll onto the next year? Are defered?

My NET P/L for CFD trading is a Loss. 

The only place I can see to enter this is to subtract the NET sum profit/loss (an income revenue loss in this case) of CFD trading, from my Other business income – manually calculated income from Cryptocurrency stock sales to AUD. 

But this doesn't sound right from what i've read.. I just can't find anywhere to clearly input CFD profit or loss. And i'm uncertain where to put income from sale of Cryptocurrency out to the real wolrd AUD, bank-cash.

The Cryptocurrency stock I sold out of my business helped me to pay for my tuition, supplies for my course. In future I hope to make money out of my field of study and include it within my ABN too. This would; however, come under special professional section in future. And I believe I would be okay to mix artist sales of my own art, under tha same ABN as my Financial Asset Trading ABN, and would simply then state 2 Business activities are being undertaken?

Thanks, clarrification of where to enter CFD profit/loss and Cryptocurrency revenue from sales out to my bank is most pertinent.

1 ACCEPTED SOLUTION

Accepted Solutions

Most helpful response

Master

Replies 0

I think this may end up a little too complex for most people here

 

I reckon your best bet would be to try the ATO's live chat a go since they're able to see your return and walk you through it. I used it last year when I wasn't sure about where to put some investment stuff and they were pretty helpful then

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/about-ato/contact-us/live-chat/

6 REPLIES 6

Devotee

Replies 4

Or is it the case my income revenue from sales of Cryptocurrency out to the bank, goes into Other business income – manually calculated

My sum of profitable CFD trades (lets say 1000AUD) adds onto Other business income – manually calculated

And my sum of CFD trade losses I go to > Loss Details and ADD

Sole Trader

Type of Loss is 8: none of the above.

Although it does say "assessable income is atleast 20000" not "assessable business income is atleast 20000", so is this my NET income including income from outside of my business such as centrelink aus-study?

If this is the case I select option 1: assessable income is atleast 20000

Primary production = 0
Non-primary production - your share of total loss = CFD loss lets say $1400
Amount of deferred loss from prior year included in above amount(s) = 0

Which means my 1400 CFD loss here offsets my 1000 CFD profit recorded in my sum Other business income – manually calculated which is profitable CFD trades + Cryptocurrency revenue not stock on hand.

Are those the correct fields?

Devotee

Replies 3

To tally all of my CFD profits and call it revenue seems wrong, as often I would open counter positions to hedge myself instead of closing. So I would have a gain and loss trailing each other, until I felt confident enough to close one or the other.

So perhaps throughout the entire year, my CFD trading account was only making back gains against initial losses, and in this way no revenue income was held in my trading account, merely a deposit which fluctuated in how much it dimminished over the year. 

1000 Net profitable trades, and 1400 Net loss trades, just really means I deposited 400 AUD and eventually lost it. needing to record the profits seperately to the losses paints a picture that never was, and was only ever a 400 AUD cost to my business.

Of course it was my intention to profit from trading CFDs; however, their use of their own analysists to determine prices of cryptocurrency was often how I lost out, and in the future my calls on trends were often proven correct, it was simply I had not the capital to ride the leveraged risk.

I found that treating trades with a multiplication of caution to match the risk made me better at CFD trading, but in the end it is designed to make the trader lose. Most of the futures markets also do not dislose their live instruments, only to platforms utilizing them and this I think creates a grey area where end users cannot validate the reported information and cannot trade with confidence.

So in short I feel it is unfair when not enough protection is put in place for those in the business of trading, to put CFD profit and loss as not mutually exclusive in the same year. Though I can see how deferred loss could be used to insentivize an individual to make profit, if they have a positive relationship with stress and competition... which I do not.

Devotee

Replies 2

If I get the NET P/L of $400 Loss from (1000P 1400L) and add that to the Loss section to be defered, is this correct?

Or do I need to pretend the profitable trades were revenue, even if they didn't increase my initial $400 deposit to the platform.

I mean... if I got to the bank and deposit 50 dollars, and then withdraw that 50 dollars, should I declare that as revenue income? Because declaring a 400 dollar deposit and loss to the platform, and claiming all the positive trades from it which failed to get my account back over what I deposited, would be taxing me for earning my own money back as income. Then deferring a larger loss than I actually initially and eventually had (i.e 1400 instead of 400) out of pocket from my business. 


Aka, deposit 400 AUD, never withdraw... make trades that lose and trades that gain back... lose the 400 AUD deposit in loss. Claim all positive trades in that business ignore losses on my account and declare a 1000AUD income? Is that what i'm doing? Then next year pretend I had a 1400AUD loss on my income, when really I only had a 400AUD loss + 19% of 1000AUD.



Devotee

Replies 1

My main concern entering it the way I've read elsewhere, is getting a call from centrelink, asking me why I had 1000 AUD CFD income I never reported... then me telling them I never had any income from CFD trading, only a gradual and eventual 400 AUD loss by EOFY. Would they be confused, because i'm confused?

Would the deferred loss (as my business is well under 20k) specifically look like it was tied to this income? Thus explaining it for itself?

Or worse... a robot tells me I had CFD income... and then I end up in a class action because the robot out ranks real humans and nobody has the authority to correct the issue unless a judge rules they are allowed to help make it make sense. 

Devotee

Replies 0

I should probably add, the only reason I consider my CFD trading as Business, is because in conjunction with and in context of my Cryptocurrency trading. I had traded CFDs in the past and made losses, but considered it gambling.

The difference was that I was thinking about it differently in conjunction with my Cryptocurrency experience, I was more business like in my decisioins, and understanding of trading analysis and causation. My CFD trading had improved, and my methods were improving too and my intentions were more focused on ways to guard and make profit.

The CFD component was a side arm to my activities with Cryptocurrency assets, and I traded several Cryptocurrency CFDs, so would find it difficult to seperate out from my business I started that year.

And being new to business is also why i'm unfamiliar with the business fields on mytax.

Most helpful response

Master

Replies 0

I think this may end up a little too complex for most people here

 

I reckon your best bet would be to try the ATO's live chat a go since they're able to see your return and walk you through it. I used it last year when I wasn't sure about where to put some investment stuff and they were pretty helpful then

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/about-ato/contact-us/live-chat/