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_DDHelper1(I'm new)I'm new
27 June 2021

Hello,

I think I have just trapped myself in a very sticky situation. I want to make sure everything done correct to transition for my future plans surrounding the ASX share market. I need some help to gather all the information before seeking professional assist to minimise the cost due to bottlenecks in getting documentation).

Backstory:I opened my brokerage account during the COVID19 drip in April 2020 buying relatively small parcels ($1000 to $10,000). I realised some 10-30% ROI profits up until July 1st totalling 40 transactions (buys and sell) I reported this on my FY19-20 tax return and received refunds on some franking credits.Roll in over to FY20-21, I was placed on job seeker and active filled the objectives set out for me – I am no longer on jobseeker. While trying to get job I tried to experiment with day trading on the ASX with the entire YouTube videos highlighting that is quite easy given the current financial situation. I used my savings and maximised the advantages of T+2 settlement on Commsec. Now, I have accumulated over 152 transactions since the start of the financial year 2020-2021 to present:

  • With a tiny running paper loss in my current portfolio (Having paper gains offsetting paper loss);
  • I also have a ledger recording a “break evenâ€� based on trades I have completed (100+ being profitable but getting offset after 6+ horrible trades);

Issue/Concern:

(1) Reading up on my tax obligation, I am a trader and need an ABN based on the transaction activity. Do I need to apply for an ABN ASAP before the end of this financial year?

(2) Based on this classification, I lost some methods of sale allocations due to being a business. As such, the way I have been recording my ledger places me in a significant difference in with FIFO , HIHO and LILO i.e. significant capital losses along current cost basis in active portfolio getting changed (but overall the same financial position on as cash position).

  • For example:
  • April 01 | Buy ABC 10,000 shares for $1.00 and then sell ABC 10,000 for $1.20. (Transaction 1)
  • April 01 | Buy ABC 10,000 shares for $1.25 (with intention of holding) (Transaction 2)
  • April 02 | Buy ABC 10,000 shares for $1.06 and then selling ABC 10,000 for $1.20. (Transaction 3)

I would record the sale in my ledger as shown in the brackets. As you can see using a FIFO method would highlight a significant loss for me. Am I wrong that I cannot record my transaction? I can provide detail evidence to show how each parcel was traded.

(3) Would my job seeker payment be at risk now (need to return funds) that I would have to register an ABN (as it could be seen as a form of employment)? I updated my assets (cash accounts and shares) and income accordingly and meeting my mutual obligations. I would also follow the link where it stated “for income from non-employment click here�.(4) I am looking at day trading for FY2021-2022, after experiencing this market as a side hustle. I would like to start fresh with a new specific brokerage account for this to divided transaction. If I sell my active portoflio right now for a loss, how would that affect me following my plans.

1,658 views
3 replies
1,658 views
3 replies

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Most helpful reply

AriATO(Community Support)Community Support
28 June 2021

Hi @DDHelper1

1. If you're a business then yes you should apply for an ABN. It can be backdated to a past date if needed.

2. If you're a business that means your shares are trading stock and the trading stock rules apply. Proceeds from the sale of shares is assessable income and the costs for purchasing shares is an allowable deduction. You need to have evidence of purchases (and sales) to support the information you provide in your tax return. See our website about income and deductions for business. You will also find a link on that page to information about Accounting for trading stock.

When you're an investor then its important to identify which shares you have disposed of for CGT. See our website about identifying when shares or units are acquired.

3. You will need to contact Services Australia about your eligibility for the Job Seeker payment.

4. If you dispose of your current assets as an investor and realise a capital loss then you can carry this loss forward to future years until you can offset it against a capital gain. Once you've transitioned to a business then you'd complete the business section of the tax return. You can still continue to carry your capital loss forward.

If you require further advice or need further clarification then please let us know.

Ari

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Most helpful reply

AriATO(Community Support)Community Support
28 June 2021

Hi @DDHelper1

1. If you're a business then yes you should apply for an ABN. It can be backdated to a past date if needed.

2. If you're a business that means your shares are trading stock and the trading stock rules apply. Proceeds from the sale of shares is assessable income and the costs for purchasing shares is an allowable deduction. You need to have evidence of purchases (and sales) to support the information you provide in your tax return. See our website about income and deductions for business. You will also find a link on that page to information about Accounting for trading stock.

When you're an investor then its important to identify which shares you have disposed of for CGT. See our website about identifying when shares or units are acquired.

3. You will need to contact Services Australia about your eligibility for the Job Seeker payment.

4. If you dispose of your current assets as an investor and realise a capital loss then you can carry this loss forward to future years until you can offset it against a capital gain. Once you've transitioned to a business then you'd complete the business section of the tax return. You can still continue to carry your capital loss forward.

If you require further advice or need further clarification then please let us know.

Ari

RIP1(Initiate)Initiate
31 Dec 2021

If you are a trader carrying on a business of buying and selling shares then all profits and losses are income and not capital losses. As such there is no discount even if you held them for over 1 year. All income and capital gains need to be declared to Centrelink and it will effect your eligibility to receive welfare if over a certain level.


I do not believe you need to adopt first in first out. I believe you need to be consistent so you business must adopt an accounting policy that is applied to all trades. You cannot chop and change to make profits higher or smaller.


can ariATO confirm my understanding?

BlakeATO(Community Support)Community Support
3 June 2022

Hi @RIP1


I'm sorry we didn't see this post until now! But yes, on both accounts you are right.


As a trader, you'd run on business income rules, not CGT rules. We can't give you advice on how it impacts payments from Centrelink, though.


You don't need to use FIFO, you can use basically any method to identify which shares you've sold. The only ones a trader can't use is LIFO and base stock methods.

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Became a day trader in FY20-21, now my concerns about my tax obligation and issues (4 concerns). | ATO Community