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Daxia(Initiate)Initiate
6 Nov 2022

Hi,

I've had a look and done a lot research on hobby or business in regards to ATO and tax but I'm still confused when it comes to something I am interested in doing.


I'm interested in starting to sell worn socks online - I think it could be something fun to do in my spare time. I wear socks daily, there are people interested in buying used/worn socks, i might be able to get a couple of extra dollars from selling the socks I've worn, so why not? The issue is I don't know if it would be considered a hobby or business?


I would see it a hobby, as I see it as recreational, I will be doing it when I want it too (not intending to make this a full time thing or source of income), it will be small scale, not run from a premises, and wont be run like a business (no advertising, receipts, records, no abn, no business name or separate bank account). BUT would the ATO see this as a business?


I ask this because I would have to sell online threw a marketplace or online store like Etsy or Sofia Gray. For example, Sofia Gray you have pay a fee to sell threw there website and it's creates your own page on there site and you can message buyers or they can reach out to for specific requests, etc. Etsy they have listing fees and take a percentage of sales, but it's a marketplace where you advertise what you are selling. Because on the aTO website it does say things about having an online shop, paying to have online selling presence, etc.


I want to do the right thing, legally and tax, and don't want to get in trouble by accidently doing the wrong thing. I'd rather not have to get an ABN for privacy reasons, which you have to get if you are running a business.

12,561 views
5 replies
12,561 views
5 replies

Most helpful response

Most helpful reply

GabbyATO(Community Support)Community Support
7 Nov 2022

Hi @Daxia,


From what you've said it sounds like you're selling as a hobby.


Basically deciding whether you're in business comes down to whether you expect to make profit from your online selling, and if you repeat the same business activities on a regular basis. On the hobby or business page it goes through some of the signs you might be in business, but it's not always clear cut. The example on the page linked above is also relevant.


Selling things like secondhand clothes that you don't want anymore isn't generally considered to be a business, even if you make a little money off it. (If you were to go out of your way to buy secondhand items and sell them with the intention of making profit, then you'd probably be running a business). Also, if you're not selling on a regular basis you probably aren't running a business. Although you might need to pay marketplace sites for your listings, it still doesn't sound to me like you're running a business.


Based on this, if you decide you're not in business you won't need to apply for an ABN or claim any expenses relating to your online selling.

All replies

Most helpful reply

GabbyATO(Community Support)Community Support
7 Nov 2022

Hi @Daxia,


From what you've said it sounds like you're selling as a hobby.


Basically deciding whether you're in business comes down to whether you expect to make profit from your online selling, and if you repeat the same business activities on a regular basis. On the hobby or business page it goes through some of the signs you might be in business, but it's not always clear cut. The example on the page linked above is also relevant.


Selling things like secondhand clothes that you don't want anymore isn't generally considered to be a business, even if you make a little money off it. (If you were to go out of your way to buy secondhand items and sell them with the intention of making profit, then you'd probably be running a business). Also, if you're not selling on a regular basis you probably aren't running a business. Although you might need to pay marketplace sites for your listings, it still doesn't sound to me like you're running a business.


Based on this, if you decide you're not in business you won't need to apply for an ABN or claim any expenses relating to your online selling.

Daxia(Initiate)Initiate
7 Nov 2022

Thank you for your help. So my understanding is if I start buying socks, stocking, etc for the purpose of selling them worn (not washed), particularly if done regularly, then it is a business and not a hobby. But I have a pair of socks that are old or socks/stocking that I don't want anymore, and sell them worn (not washed) it is a hobby? I was thinking about doing selling used undergarments/underwear or feet pictures but I understand that would then require an ABN as its considered "adult" work.

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